• From: Hove
  • Registered: 04-12-2009
  • Posts: 2,424

Re: KP & Hampshire

I agree these are the opinions of the 'Guardian' journalist but they are largely based on statistics. No-one is denying what a nice man Peter Moores is and how well he got on with certain players. That isn't the point. Moores was an excellent Sussex coach who was responsible, along with Adams and Mushtaq, for the club's first ever championship win. And Sussex supporters will be eternally grateful.

As for Duncan Fletcher, Paul Coupar points out, "Fletcher achieved what no other coach had – he made England a winning side. No one comes close to his 42% of Tests won." His view is based on statistics and little else.

"Now the stumps have asked for pads!"
(Aussie radio commentator Kerry O'Keeffe as Rahul Dravid, bowled six times in seven innings during the present series, walks out to bat at the Adelaide Oval)
  • From: Sussex, living in Surrey
  • Registered: 05-10-2006
  • Posts: 3,633

Re: KP & Hampshire

KP interview

  • From: Arundel
  • Registered: 25-08-2004
  • Posts: 4,438

Re: KP & Hampshire

moores is a sussex legend.  always welcome back at our grounds!!!!

life member - you're stuck with me!

mike-by-the-sea's Website

  • Registered: 17-08-2009
  • Posts: 1,243

Re: KP & Hampshire

mike-by-the-sea wrote:

moores is a sussex legend.  always welcome back at our grounds!!!!

Well said.

  • From: Sussex, living in Surrey
  • Registered: 05-10-2006
  • Posts: 3,633

Re: KP & Hampshire

daveshark wrote:
Ardcarran wrote:

I am astonished they've dropped him from the ODIs. Just the wrong thing to do to him.

It seems a decent idea to me.  He has a bit more cricket to play in a slightly less intense environment (although I stress the 'slightly').  The selectors have been extremely strong here which surprises me but is on the whole a good thing.  How KP responds will be very interesting to see

I agree daveshark it will be interesting to see how he responds to this (good players should bounce back ?) - and especially at Bristol which has been a batsman's graveyard in 4 day cricket this season (only one championship  century scored there this season I think, by our very own RMJ...).

It is odd that he should be dropped from one form of the game to regain form in another format, but that maybe the craziness of the international schedule and limited amount of 'domestic' cricket that the top players play these days as much as anything else.

[Edit : geoffrey Boycott agrees with me ! :  http://www.cricinfo.com/england/content … 75523.html ]

Last edited by 3rdman (02-09-2010 09:57:26)

  • Registered: 15-04-2006
  • Posts: 4,914

Re: KP & Hampshire

Priorities are clear - our best one day batsman dropped from one dayers to get into five day form

  • Registered: 16-09-2008
  • Posts: 758

Re: KP & Hampshire

3rdman/ wrote:

It is odd that he should be dropped from one form of the game to regain form in another format, but that maybe the craziness of the international schedule and limited amount of 'domestic' cricket that the top players play these days as much as anything else.

Not odd at all. What would have been odd is if the management had thought that picking him for the ODIs would help his test form more than having the opportunity to play some first class matches.

  • Registered: 15-04-2006
  • Posts: 4,914

Re: KP & Hampshire

Ravenshill, what about picking him for the ODIs so that we have a better chance of winning the ODIs!

It's a wonder we don't ditch 50 over cricket, ditch playing 'lesser nations' and just have the Ashes twice a year in two forms  hmm

  • Registered: 16-09-2008
  • Posts: 758

Re: KP & Hampshire

In his current form, I'm not at all sure that we have a better chance of winning the ODIs with him in the side. His technique looks poor and even he admits that he is mentally shot.

He didn't look to be that good yesterday v Worcs, whereas on form he would rip that bowling attack a new one without even trying.

  • Registered: 05-01-2008
  • Posts: 707

Re: KP & Hampshire

mike-by-the-sea wrote:

moores is a sussex legend.  always welcome back at our grounds!!!!

No doubt about it, but let's not lose sight of the fact that Andy Flower has got infinitely better results using pretty much the same selectors, backroom staff and players that Moores had at his disposal.  Michael Vaughan seems the one who really had it in for Moores, I think he is the one who leaked the fact that KP had written in his report that he thought England needed a different coach.  It seemed weird at the time that the ECB asked KP for a report on the tour to India and then got upset when he told the truth.  The crime was the fact that it was made public.

I've read in the paper again that KP is much more popular in the dressing room than is widely believed, with Bumble, Flintoff and Atherton saying that he is a perfectly nice bloke, if a bit shy.  As Sussex fans we've seen Prior's character dragged through the mud when nothing could be further from the truth which is why I feel a bit sorry for players who have fans take glee in kicking them when they're down.

  • Registered: 05-01-2008
  • Posts: 707

Re: KP & Hampshire

ravenshill wrote:

In his current form, I'm not at all sure that we have a better chance of winning the ODIs with him in the side. His technique looks poor and even he admits that he is mentally shot.

He didn't look to be that good yesterday v Worcs, whereas on form he would rip that bowling attack a new one without even trying.

He's obviously out of knick and lost the art of getting a hundred, which is basically all that he is missing.  He's much more likely to get that back playing 10 days of county cricket than at the top level.  They couldn't really play him in the T20s and still play some county cricket because of the schedule.  It had to be all or nothing.

  • Registered: 15-04-2006
  • Posts: 4,914

Re: KP & Hampshire

daveshark wrote:

I've read in the paper again that KP is much more popular in the dressing room than is widely believed, with Bumble, Flintoff and Atherton saying that he is a perfectly nice bloke, if a bit shy.  As Sussex fans we've seen Prior's character dragged through the mud when nothing could be further from the truth which is why I feel a bit sorry for players who have fans take glee in kicking them when they're down.

You hear this quite a bit about KP, so why then has he fallen out with so many people? Just doesn't add up that it is always everyone else and that he's just a shy, popular bloke  hmm

  • From: Sheffield
  • Registered: 31-08-2009
  • Posts: 242

Re: KP & Hampshire

When everyone's fit and in form, KP is our best batsman in all formats, but he's palpably, horribly, out of form at the moment. Playing like this, he's not one of the best batsmen in the country, and I don't see the logic in thinking he'll score runs against the same bowlers he's been struggling against for the last month, just because it's a different form of the game.

It's true that lesser players have been persevered with for longer, and in that sense KP doesn't "deserve" to be dropped, but that's probably missing the point. The selectors haven't been keen to drop other players because they might not make it back, whereas they have no question marks over KP's long term future and simply think this is the best, quickest way to get him back in form.

I think it very unlikely that his confidence will be fatally undermined because no-one, including KP, really thinks he won't be playing in Brisbane. I think he'll be a bit pissed off and driven to make runs in a domineering fashion, which is the way he needs to be playing.

Having said that, I was as astonished as Ardcarran that they actually dropped him.

Finally, on the personality issue, I think he comes across as very driven, and very gauche, but no more difficult than the average international player when it comes to fitting in to a dressing room.

  • Registered: 15-04-2006
  • Posts: 4,914

Re: KP & Hampshire

Paperboy's Nephew wrote:

I don't see the logic in thinking he'll score runs against the same bowlers he's been struggling against for the last month

Give or take M. Amir and M. Asif  wink

  • From: Sheffield
  • Registered: 31-08-2009
  • Posts: 242

Re: KP & Hampshire

Ardcarran wrote:
Paperboy's Nephew wrote:

I don't see the logic in thinking he'll score runs against the same bowlers he's been struggling against for the last month

Give or take M. Amir and M. Asif  wink

Ahem.

  • Registered: 16-09-2008
  • Posts: 758

Re: KP & Hampshire

Paperboy's Nephew wrote:

It's true that lesser players have been persevered with for longer, and in that sense KP doesn't "deserve" to be dropped, but that's probably missing the point. The selectors haven't been keen to drop other players because they might not make it back, whereas they have no question marks over KP's long term future and simply think this is the best, quickest way to get him back in form.

A very good point. I have seen on other forums people saying that Collingwood should also have been dropped to refind form but were he not to score runs in Durham's last couple of matches, at his age he probably isn't making it back.

Of course, some might say it would be for the best if he is still out of form and were it any seried but the Ashes I would agree, but he is our grit and experience guy and I'm sure we will need that this winter at some point. Also, if he has a failing, it is that that he goes into himself rather than KP's getting more expansive, so for him a bit of the short format may do the trick and blow the cobwebs away.

  • From: Hove
  • Registered: 04-12-2009
  • Posts: 2,424

Re: KP & Hampshire

PN,

"Finally, on the personality issue, I think he comes across as very driven, and very gauche, but no more difficult than the average international player when it comes to fitting in to a dressing room."

Thank you for your common sense although I would question your use of the word 'gauche', which means clumsy or tactless. I am amazed at some of the irrational vitriolic comments various posters write about KP. To repeat, it is a media-driven witch-hunt on his personality just to sell papers; and it's sad that some cricket fans are brainwashed by this piffle.

Take Swann recently. If it had been Pietersen or Flintoff charged for drink driving, the tabloids would have had a field day. Front page headlines with pictures of lush worse for wear, no doubt taken at some private party in the past. They would have been lambasted. But not Swann.

The media have purposefully turned KP into some difficult, maverick, anti-authoritarian, prima donna individual to gain an emotional reaction from the public so as to sell extra copies. I cannot believe that some cricket followers can be so gullible to this blatant media manipulation and fall for the deception so easily.

KP is, perhaps, the most misunderstood cricketer in the world thanks to the English media.

"Now the stumps have asked for pads!"
(Aussie radio commentator Kerry O'Keeffe as Rahul Dravid, bowled six times in seven innings during the present series, walks out to bat at the Adelaide Oval)
  • Registered: 16-04-2007
  • Posts: 143

Re: KP & Hampshire

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricke … -time.html

  • From: Fishersgate Maritime Village
  • Registered: 04-11-2006
  • Posts: 10,444

Re: KP & Hampshire

Interesting post S & F (another of your conspiracies!) but has to be said that some players chase publicity (think Beckham or Flintoff) and some dont say much - KP'S treatment is at least partly self-inflicted - it was a lesson Matt Prior learnt early

  • Registered: 24-04-2007
  • Posts: 918

Re: KP & Hampshire

softandfluffy wrote:

The media have purposefully turned KP into some difficult, maverick, anti-authoritarian, prima donna individual to gain an emotional reaction from the public so as to sell extra copies. I cannot believe that some cricket followers can be so gullible to this blatant media manipulation and fall for the deception so easily.

KP is, perhaps, the most misunderstood cricketer in the world thanks to the English media.

I'm not as anti-KP as many in the country.  However, S&F you are displaying you're favourite habit of being devil's advocate.  I think the evidence is stacking up against KP with 2 counties and an England ex-coach who could vouch for KP being difficult (and surely many others).  Apart from the T20 World Cup KP hasn't had the same spring in his step and has sulked since he lost the captaincy.  I don't feel sorry for Hampshire given that they threw money at a player who was never likely to play for them much.  However, most players in his situation would just go and play for their county on a few occasions as required until the end of the season and then ask to leave behind closed doors.  KP said he couldn't be bothered to travel an hour and a half from his chelsea pad.  That doesn't really require media manipulation to make him persona non grata.

  • From: Hove seafront, still high up..
  • Registered: 26-04-2009
  • Posts: 1,965

Re: KP & Hampshire

Paperboy's Nephew wrote:

When everyone's fit and in form, KP is our best batsman in all formats, but he's palpably, horribly, out of form at the moment. Playing like this, he's not one of the best batsmen in the country, and I don't see the logic in thinking he'll score runs against the same bowlers he's been struggling against for the last month, just because it's a different form of the game.

It's true that lesser players have been persevered with for longer, and in that sense KP doesn't "deserve" to be dropped, but that's probably missing the point. The selectors haven't been keen to drop other players because they might not make it back, whereas they have no question marks over KP's long term future and simply think this is the best, quickest way to get him back in form.

I think it very unlikely that his confidence will be fatally undermined because no-one, including KP, really thinks he won't be playing in Brisbane. I think he'll be a bit pissed off and driven to make runs in a domineering fashion, which is the way he needs to be playing.

Having said that, I was as astonished as Ardcarran that they actually dropped him.

Finally, on the personality issue, I think he comes across as very driven, and very gauche, but no more difficult than the average international player when it comes to fitting in to a dressing room.

Great post PN and can't disagree with any of it to be honest, but then I read JCD's post above this one and you have to wonder about some of those points too.. It would be interesting to get the real truth...

On a separate issue S&F's dim view of the press can only be proven by the whole Telegraph link above from tdandrews with HB urging KP to come 'full time'... Those quotes are from the 2 min interview with Rory on Sky after the game when put on the spot and asked a direct question, of course he's not going to say 'no, he's a bad egg we're not interested'...

Makes you question the validity of some of these articles...

Ashes winning bowler 2011 (3-9 in the Fans Ashes, Barmy Army 3 - 2 Australian Fanatics, Coogee Oval 01/01/11)
  • From: Hove
  • Registered: 04-12-2009
  • Posts: 2,424

Re: KP & Hampshire

Sweaty,

There are conspiracies and then conspiracies. Lady Diana being assassinated by MI6 or Marilyn Monroe the CIA are actual conspiracies; not that the media twist and distort celebrity personalities to sell extra newspapers. Oh dear, I should never have expressed those views on climate change.  wink

JCD,

"I think the evidence is stacking up against KP with 2 counties and an England ex-coach..."

One forgets, Pietersen had a career-ending injury during part of his tenure at Hampshire. His achilles problem was exacerbated by the post-op infection and there was a moment where the doctors thought KP would not recover.

Since his injury, Pietersen's form has not recovered, I agree. I do not accept it is down to his loss of captaincy. Whether his physical confidence is shot, who knows? Then add the responsibility of his marriage and baby; all these factors can affect a top sportsman's ability to perform.

At first, Pietersen was looking for attention; his streaked hair in the 2005 Ashes series; the friendship with Warne; his minor tantrum at Notts; so, perhaps, there was an aspect of prima donna about him. But the guy has grown up; and this is what the media won't accept or allow. The settled married father who has matured during the last 5 years.

As for his desire not to travel an hour and half to the 'Sh*tbowl', can you blame him? My view is, once his playing days are over, KP has the potential to become one of the best and most innovative cricket managers/coaches, the world has seen.

Big D,

I was involved with the media, in one form or another, for 25 years. I walked away because I became disillusioned by the blatant manipulation that goes on. My view is the public don't mind and don't care. They accept it as part of life and even enjoy being treated as shallow ignorant pawns by the press.

"Now the stumps have asked for pads!"
(Aussie radio commentator Kerry O'Keeffe as Rahul Dravid, bowled six times in seven innings during the present series, walks out to bat at the Adelaide Oval)
  • From: Sheffield
  • Registered: 31-08-2009
  • Posts: 242

Re: KP & Hampshire

softandfluffy wrote:

Thank you for your common sense although I would question your use of the word 'gauche', which means clumsy or tactless.

I do hope you're not suggesting I don't know what gauche means.

Physically clumsy and verbally tactless - isn't that KP to a tee?

  • From: Sheffield
  • Registered: 31-08-2009
  • Posts: 242

Re: KP & Hampshire

JCDSussex wrote:

KP said he couldn't be bothered to travel an hour and a half from his chelsea pad.  That doesn't really require media manipulation to make him persona non grata.

Everyone seems to think it's ridiculous that KP won't travel that distance to play for Hants. Is it because you all live in Sussex and have to drive for hours through glorious countryside in order to get anywhere?

If I lived in London and spent most of the year jetting round the world in order to play cricket, I wouldn't want to travel that far either if I didn't have to.

  • From: United Kingdom
  • Registered: 17-11-2004
  • Posts: 2,053

Re: KP & Hampshire

Paperboy's Nephew wrote:
JCDSussex wrote:

KP said he couldn't be bothered to travel an hour and a half from his chelsea pad.  That doesn't really require media manipulation to make him persona non grata.

Everyone seems to think it's ridiculous that KP won't travel that distance to play for Hants. Is it because you all live in Sussex and have to drive for hours through glorious countryside in order to get anywhere?

If I lived in London and spent most of the year jetting round the world in order to play cricket, I wouldn't want to travel that far either if I didn't have to.

But he does have to, he is Hampshire's player, so why does he not live nearer? It's a pretty arrogant excuse to leave a county, basically showing his disdain for County Cricket! Lucky he does live in Chelsea and Surrey look mug enough to take him on, he'd be stuffed if he lived in Cornwall or Norfolk.